I've been doing 80-10-10 with no overt fats for 5 months. The first 3 months I felt better than ever. I would usually have a 16 banana smoothie for breakfast and feel great.

Now I can rarely eat more than 6 bananas without getting pain. I eat a lot of bananas because they are cheap and of reliable quality. As far as I can tell any fruit can cause this and only fruit can cause this to me.

This pain I get hurts behind my stomach and around my mid back. When its really bad it hurts up my spine and at the worst I don't feel like moving a muscle. It last about 15 minutes then goes away. I haven't had it really bad in a long time because I figured out that the more I eat at a time the worse it is. I make sure not to eat enough to make me crippled after a meal which is usually 600 calories a meal.

I've never had any pain like this before. I've had lots of stomach pain in the past thats led me to improve my diet. This isn't the worst but it is the most intense pain. A few years ago a GI doctor did several tests and found nothing wrong.

This pain is much less likely to occur if I eat vegetables with my fruit. I eat a lot of green smoothies. I want to be able to eat fruit meals though. I usually eat 1 pound of greens a day.

Why do I have this pain after eating fruit?
How could I have done this diet for 3 months and then start to get this pain?

A symptom such as this one is most likely due to a healing crisis taking place within your body. Without knowing anything about your personal health history, or the rest of your lifestyle, or even your age, the best advice I can offer is to seriously consider applying for an extended, supervised fast with Dr. Graham. You may be able to ride out this symptom otherwise, but an extended, supervised fast would allow you to most rapidly heal. Fasting gives a rest to the entire digestive system. A long list of digestive maladies respond extremely well to fasting. I believe it would do your body the greatest of favors.

Sincerely,
Luke

Could it be more sugar than I need at a time?

I've been trying to listen to my body more and eat when I'm hungry and stop when I'm not hungry. Doing this I've had no pain for several days even on larger meals.

Do you wait until your hungry to eat?

If so how do you know your when your hungry?

Before 811 I would eat when my stomach growled followed by a feeling of weakness and shakiness. This happened about every 2 hours. Now on 811 I don't get these feelings and sometimes it's hard for me to tell when I'm hungry.

Without much more information about you, I do not know what help my experiences would give you regarding my eating habits.
Ideally, we would eat when hungry, until we are full.
Hunger is generally a lower-throat sensation, similar to thirst. Dr. Graham explains how hunger differs to appetite within The 80/10/10 Diet and The Perfect Health Program.
As Dr. Graham explains within The Perfect Health Program, it can take some practice to know what true hunger really feels like, what it's about, and how much we need to eat to reach the point of satiation.
The "hunger pangs" you speak of are symptoms of the stomach emptying its contents into the intestines. They are not related to true hunger, but are caused simply by the movement of food through the part of the digestive tract that follows on from the stomach. Because raw fruits and vegetables are so much easier to digest than the foods eaten on a standard Western diet, digestion on 811 requires less effort and is quicker. Hunger pangs are less likely to occur on 811 as food moves from the stomach to the intestines.
I suggest learning more about this whole "hunger-vs-appetite" issue, and the correlation between various bodily cues and hunger, by listening to The Perfect Health Program, especially discs 8 and 9 of the series. If, after becoming familiar with the material, you are still concerned about experiences you are having alongside the "hunger pangs", I suggest consulting with Dr. Graham on the matter. Such experiences may be serious and require very specific, close guidance, or such experiences may be generalized and may be possible to ride out as time on 811 goes by. The way for us to know is by having all the information we need about you, your lifestyle, your background and your health history. Only then can appropriate suggestions be made to you about your individual situation and experiences. There is no substitute for consulting with Dr. Graham in that regard. This forum is very helpful for sharing generic advice and guidance with people. But, individualized advice and guidance require full knowledge about the individual before they can be appropriately given.

I wish you all the best, Cloudyknight.

Yes I've listened to the perfect health program a few times now.

Through experience, trail and error I now know what causes this pain.
It's too much sugar absorbed too fast. I know this because only fruit causes this problem. Fruit juice always causes this problem including tangerine juice even pomegranate juice. Watermelon usually causes this as well. Considering that fruit juice always causes this it's got to be too much sugar absorbed too fast. I know fruit juice isn't recommended I just tried it a few times. The fact that fruit juice always causes this proves to me that this is a sugar issue.

I figured out how to prevent this though. Eat many small meals spaced out through the day. I eat 5 or 6 600 calorie meals. Much more than 600 calories at a time and I have pain. I can eat 600 calories of dates fine but if I put those same dates in a blender with water I have problems. I think that would speed up the absorption rate of the sugar.

So for me to avoid the pain in most cases I do 5 or 6 600 calorie meals a day, no watermelon, no date smoothies, and no juice, and I'm fine.

I would still like to know if anyone has other ways to deal with this or a way to cure this. I would like a consultation but I'm not sure I could afford it.

I know of many others who have this same problem. It seems that as many people as there are that have this someone would figure out what this problem is.

I totally agree that a consult would be the ideal thing for you to amp up your progress and answer questions specific to your particular needs. I encourage you to do that and/or attend a FoodnSport event.

In the meantime here are some thoughts that came to my non-expert lay-person mind for you to consider to see if they ring true to you and to work into whatever experiments you are trying, or totally discard at will, hehe.

Have you heard of melon belly? Some people get this when eating melons, and sometimes it's felt in the back instead of the belly. I don't get it personally. Darrel gets a pain in his back when he has juicy fruit in the morning after having eaten non-80/10/10 style the day or few before. It seems to me like it's his peristalsis suddenly kicking in when it was previously sluggish from the other foods, which feels a bit like a cramp if I remember correctly. He doesn't get it if he's been eating 80/10/10 style for a while though, and he doesn't get it from the sweeter fruits it's from the juicy ones.

From some of your other descriptions I'd think it had more to do with volume than sugar as you seem to be having smoothies rather than drinking strained juices, right? If you are having strained juices you could have sugar issues, however I have not heard of this symptom as being one related to blood sugar issues. Straining juices removes the fibers that regulate sugar uptake and your elimination of the solids later on through peristalsis so it makes people more likely to have blood sugar issues than they would if eating the foods whole with the fibers like you would do if making a smoothie with the fruit instead.

Another reason I'd think it wasn't sugar and more of a volume issue has to do with what you said here:

The description of how you needed to eat every couple of hours before 80/10/10 is similar to the descriptions I'm familiar with of blood sugar issues. The fact that you are not experiencing this now seems to indicate that you are having less issues with sugar imbalances than you were before.

I personally find it more difficult to get enough calories with bananas if I make them into a smoothie because of the extra volume the water takes up. I know that a lot of people find it easier to drink smoothies and will get more bananas in that way, but for me it's a volume thing. I find it quite easy to just eat a bunch of bananas and if I find I don't like the bananas enough to eat enough calories I'll add dates to the smoothie in order to make up for the calories lost in my ability to drink enough volume with the water.

If dates blended with water is giving you issues, have you tried using less water so it's less volume? Also, have you tried adding in celery or greens to add more fiber to help with sugar regulation?

I personally don't have a sweet tooth, hehe, yeah funny that I'm eating primarily fruit, eh? Anyway, I find it difficult to eat dates alone because they are so sweet, and I don't like things that sweet, so I always eat them with either apple or celery chaser bites in order to even it out. I find apples are not a good calorie source alone, so always eat them with dates, so it works out in both directions that way, hehe. Perhaps those things will help you as well.

_________________
Aloha!

-Janie

Hey I had this same exact thing happening particularly with grapes and dates blended with water. Janie recommended trying less water when blending the dates and I find that doing this usually results in no pain.

I also find that if I take the time to eat slower it helps.

I have been happily eating the recommended foods of 80/10/10, but did used to find that I would always get the pain in the morning after eating some fruit if I ate something less than perfect the night before. This may have been simply spices in my food like turmeric, cayenne pepper or cumin. , or too much fat in the meal. I think it may have something to do with detoxing, as I didn't have this problem until a few months after starting 80/10/10. The way I see it is that I just reached a point of deeper detoxification and it was time to cut the possible causes out of my diet.

I have since really watched my fat intake and rarely eat overt fats for the time being. When I do blend dates and water I use just a little more water than would be required to just cover the dates in the blender, It comes out pretty thick but I do not have problems when drinking it. I also limit my use of herbs and spices and stick to tender greens. This has very drastically reduced the frequency of pain for me, however I will occasionally still get the intense pain that goes away in about 15 minutes, but not at all often. I truly feel it's some part of the body gradually detoxing.

Long post I know but I hope it helps some. I also noticed that doing banana island helped with digestion. I have been struggling with obtaining quality bananas lately, but that's a whole different problem.

Stay strong and things will get better.

Sometimes it seems like it's getting better. A few days ago I could eat fruit until I was actually full it was amazing. I just kept eating and eating without any discomfort. Today I couldn't even get past breakfast without pain.

It's like I usually can't digest the fruit as fast as it needs to be digested. After about 6 months without nuts or seeds I have started eating them regularly again. I feel good eating them as long as I eat them with plenty of greens.

I know it's not a volume issue because I can have a 2 liter smoothie with 6 bananas and over a pound of lettuce and be fine but sometimes I'm in trouble after a 6 banana smoothie which is 1 liter.

I've never been into juicing I just wanted to give it a try a few times. Even though it taste amazing it's always a bad experience so I give on juicing.

Maybe this will go away eventually. I'll let you know if it does.

I've got this under control now. I believe that taking a chromium supplement made the difference. It took 3 weeks of taking it everyday before I noticed it helping. I still have to eat pretty slow and I start off with a green smoothie for breakfast.